please read the warning before you watch the video. i've been up late and for some reason this study on humans seems so very relevant/important to me right now.
Christmas... i cant help but think of that commercial... "Giving... thats the thing..." altho giving is very important to Christmas and among other things that are indeed important... it is NOT the most important thing about Christmas... you have to ask yourself: "why was Jesus born? and did we need Him at all? Why cant we just have santa?
please don't watch this if you are in a happy mood and want to stay that way... altho i feel like this is something that everyone in the world should watch. why? because this is normal. this is the average (majority of) human reaction. think about it, and think about it hard. humans amaze me. why? because we are capable of great things. both good and evil. are we inherently good? no. this is a choice that we can(and have to) make in every moment of our lives. this video is important to remind us of what we CAN do. don't kid yourselves. think about it hard, and then think about it some more.
thanks Rita. i was wondering what to think about posting this video when i got up today. the above disclaimer is only my take on the video. please feel free to have/share your own (not just Rita).
cuteecake wrote on Dec 24, '07, edited on Dec 24, '07
Well, to elaborate: I guess i've always known that people are cabable of pretty messed up things. Look at "A Man Called Dave" (there is a book about this guy who was abused as a child in horrific ways and lives to tell about it as a pretty well rounded person). Anyway, looking at the guards at Abu Grahib, it's just sad that both parties are so jaded. The prisoners will have "evil American" forever etched in their memories and the guards will be so messed up over everything for years to come. I wish there was more in the video from the perspective of the prisoners from the Uni Experiment. I think I would have liked to hear how they dealt with it later. It's so humiliating. I mean, could the two parties ever be friends? Even if the understanding is that it's just an experiment? And in Abu Grahib, do you think that the prisoners could ever know that some of the guards hold remorse and guilt for their actions? What's really disgusting is that this is authorized by the "higher ups," and there are no rules. They are told to do whatever it takes??? Wow. Anyway, it says a lot too about the importance of laws and police and governance. People need guidance. And I guess this can be applied further to the importance of religion and faith for people as well. Anyway, I am upset that this experiment is out there and they STILL allowed this to happen in Abu Grahib. Are experiments not there to teach us about outcomes in real life situations? Anyway, I could go on and on. Sigh.
To comment further on your questions about Jesus... Was the life of Jesus not an experiment, so to speak, to teach us about outcomes in real life situations? Is he not a hero to look to as a guide for living? Like Gandhi (i just read a book about him)(Amazing!). There really are too many people who are like Sheep out there. It is tough to find people that stand up for what is right.
"What's really disgusting is that this is authorized by the "higher ups," and there are no rules."- i think this part is more important than i would first think after watching this video. i mean, alot of what happened has do do with the leadership, but it is certainly tough to point the finger at who is at fault.
"Was the life of Jesus not an experiment"- by the way you mean "experiment" i think maybe yes. but in a lab rat sort of way- no. to teach?- yes. a hero?-well in a better than "super" sort of way, yes. a guide? -yes. but He was alot more than that too. according to the bible- He was also Gods Son. a perfect sacrifice to make it possible for us to have any sort of relationship with God. you see, my earlier point as to "why He was born" -was getting towards our need for Him in not just a teacher sort of way (but certainly a major part of it), but in the way that we are basically bad (for a lack of a better way to word it). God is fully good and cannot stand our badness. not even alittle bit. but yet He still loves us. so in order to be able to stand us He gave His only Son. so now when He looks at us He sees Jesus in our place. Jesus took our place. so now He can hang out with us. - those are all the things (i think) that were going through my head when i saw that video. because i'd love to say that i would never do any of those horrific things (and maybe i wouldn't) but the point is that those people are normal and that means that I COULD do those things (heh, if im normal enough).
ok. now that i am back home and the internet WORKS for longer than 2 min. at a time i can contribute my opinions. 1 - Abu Grahib, the university experiment, the holocaust, war, etc...are all examples of how normal people are possible of such horrible inhumanity. take the holocaust and WW2 for a further example - it wasn't hitler and his cronies who were the ones to blame for it all - sure they were the "organizers" and people in charge, but they couldn't have done it without the support and help of millions of normal germans. same with Abu Grahib - it wasn't the military leaders in the background who forced those guards to do what they do, but that doesn't make them without fault. i don't know...it is hard to really explain what i think about all of this in a comment. humans are so complex, human society is so screwed up...
2 - jesus. another difficult subject to squish into a few lines....
Okay, I'm a little sleep deprived, so this is a bit rambley. Babies do that to you!
It's like Lord of the Flies. Without set rules or guidelines, people go way off track. They start to push the boundaries (like we do when we are kids, and then again as teenagers) to see how far is too far. I reckon most of those people would've known that what they were doing was morally wrong, but were doing it because no one told them to stop. They were waiting for the line to be drawn that says "this is too far" but it never was, so they kept doing what they were doing, or doing worse than they were, waiting for that line to be drawn. I would like to think that I wouldn't do anywhere near what they were doing. I would like to think that I would stand up and tell the higher ups that it sucked and they could stick their job. But, you just don't know what you would do in any given situation.
I would also like to hear more from the prisoners in the experiment. Are they on the other episodes?
thanks so much for your comments ladies. this was definitely a subject that i needed to hear some feedback and other opinions on. rambley is just what i was shooting for.
Yes! Good example using Lord of the Flies! I had forgotten about that story! I think it's insane that people were basically waiting for a line to be drawn. Even as adults! I think it's scary that so many people are succeptable to "group think". I guess that is why we have fashion trends and top 40 charts. Heroes being exceptions to the "rule" is so profound. It takes a lot of courage especially in situations like this to say WAIT, this is so wrong! Can't anyone see?? But I think when that one person does stand up, many of the others that were thinking even remotely the same thing can say "me to!" I guess we have to remember to speak up when we know something is wrong. If everyone starts taking responsibilty and not worrying about the group then we'll have less stupid shit like this happening in the world.
but would the others say "me too" or would they be so ashamed of their own behaviour that they try to shut up the only person pointing out how bad their behaviour is? i hope they WOULD say me too, but from hearing about all the cover ups in politics, i worry that they wouldn't.
